Transcript 175
Steps In Spiritual Life
2nd August, 1992
Robert: Good evening. It is a pleasure to be with you again. I welcome you with
all my heart. I love you. All is well. Everything is unfolding as it should.
While I was sitting in the silence. I sort of reverted to the days when I was in
Arunachala. I usually do not discuss this too much with other people but since it just came
to me I will sort of briefly touch the subject.
I had been living in Ramana ashram for about a year and a half. This was the end
of 1948. I stayed with Arthur Osborne, in his house. In those days when foreigners came
they were put up with Arthur Osborne most of the time without him knowing.
And on one particular evening about 4 o clock Sri Ramana walked into the cottage
and he brought me a mango. And he sat down on a stool in the corner of the room. I sat on
the bed. We looked at each other and we smiled. He gave me one of his beautiful grins of
his. And I knew that we should keep silent we should say anything because there is nothing
to say. But all of a sudden he asked me a question. I asked him, "Ramana what is more
important to be in the presence of a Sage or to practice atma-vichara by yourself, selfinquiry?"
I had already known the answer but it seemed the right thing to do was to ask
him the question.
And he knew that I knew the answer. He waited a few seconds ??? and then he
said, "The Sage is atma-vichara. The Sage is the Self, your Self." Therefore when one is in
the presence of the Sage all of the sadhana is being done at an accelerating rate. Everything
that has to be done is being done. When one is in the presence of a true Sage.
So again I asked him, "How come so many people have come to you and only
certain people feel it. Some people feel nothing. Some people go away disappointed. And
some people get all of their dreams fulfilled?" Again I knew the answer.
So he waited a minute or so and he said, "This depends on the maturity of the
seeker. It depends on the sincerity of the seeker. As you can see many people come here to
visit me. To make a judgement and then they go look for another teacher. They go somewhere
else. They travel all through India. And then they go back to England or to Holland
or to the United States and they tell their friends that they have seen 10 Sages. Yet nothing
has happened to them. But if one is sincere and surrenders totally to the Sage then the
Sage, the grace of the Sage will automatically is felt by this individual and this individual
makes tremendous progress. But the person really has to be sincere." By sincere he said, "I
mean he has to be a devotee. To forget about him or herself totally, completely and merge
in the Sage."
I then asked him another question, "What is the easiest way and most effective
way to do atma-vichara, self-inquiry?" Again he smiled and waited a few seconds and
then he said, "To always be aware consciously in all situations of the I-am. No matter what
you're doing where you are be aware of the I-am in your heart. This is the most effective
practice."
His head started shaking and I also asked about this. "Why do you have this
weakness?" I found out later his head was shaking for the last forty years. He again explained
to me that when he had his experience when he was sixteen years old it was like
putting an elephant in a hut. What happens when you put an elephant in a hut? The hut
shakes all over. It breaks to pieces. When he had his near death experience he told me his
body shook to pieces as-it-were and left him weak. This is interesting to remember.
I asked him, "Why didn't this happen to me at the time?" And he explained to me
that I had an experience not of death but of life. Which is a little different. I asked him,
"What determines these experiences?" He said, "Karma." I then left it alone. He walked
with a cane , with a stick. This was 1949 he was very sick. That is how his body appeared.
And his attendant came in took him to his toilet where he was supposed to go about 4 o
clock and he left.
experiencing good or bad, riches or poverty, sickness or health these things are totally
irrelevant. The idea is to take your mind off yourself, your little self, off the I-thought and
merge you mind with the I-am consciousness. Forget about your pettiness. Forget about
your personal life. In truth you have no personal life. You must always remember this.
There is nothing personal about you.
You're always so worried about your affairs as if something can hurt you in this
world. This world is a world of god. It is a spiritual world. Everything in this world is
Brahman. How can Brahman hurt you. How can god cause you misery or pain. These
things are the false I. You have for some reason or another become hypnotized into believing
you have pain, you have lack, you have imitation, there is something wrong with you.
This is an optical illusion.
You do not really exist as a body at all. There is no body that you have to get rid
of. Some of you are still meditating on the fact that yo have to get rid of your body somehow.
Some of you even believe and think that you would like to so-called die to the body.
So you can be free of it. This is a false premise. How can you be free of something that you
Robert Adams Satsangs: The Collected Works
1800
never had? The body is an appearance like the world. Who's appearance? Nobody's appearance.
But for some reason you have become attached to the thing called the body and
to this manifest world. This is the only reason you suffer. Because of your attachment to
the body and to the world. If you were not attached to your body or to the world who
would be left to suffer? It is the body that suffers. It is the body that goes through experiences.
Not you.
If only you could understand what I'm saying. And go deep within yourself. Beyond
the body. Beyond the experiencer. Beyond the witness. Beyond everything. If you
can only feel this you would always be in bliss, always. You would always be totally, completely,
absolutely happy. For no reason whatsoever.
Do not look to the world to solve your problems. Do not believe and think that if
you change conditions that you would be better off. Some people believe that if they didn't
work they would be better off. They would be happy and peaceful, blissful. Some people
believe that if they had a job that they liked they would be blissful and happy. Everybody
believes something else. All of these beliefs are wrong. They're wrong because you are
looking to a condition to make you happy. You're looking for an experience to give you
peace. You're doing this again because you believe you are a body.
There is no condition, there is no experience in this world that can bring you peace
and happiness. For peace and happiness are your rightful nature. This is your natural
state. It is only when you allow the mind to think that trouble begins.
So the first step in spiritual life is learning to control your mind.
You learn to control your mind by inquiring, "To whom does the mind come?"
This makes you realize that the mind comes to your body. It's part of your body process.
But in truth you have no mind. You are mindless. When you are mindless you are Brahman.
You are god. Where the mind is limited. You have to always go beyond the mind.
You stop paying attention to the thoughts. Let the thoughts do what they will. Allow the
thoughts to frighten you if they will. To tell you all kinds of stories. To tell you all kinds of
things. Do not pay any attention. When you ignore your mind it will go away.
The second step in spiritual progress is to develop humility. And humility means
you do not judge people. You do not feel slighted when someone talks about you or tells
you something rude. You do not get angry or upset. You just remain yourself.
This sounds like a wimp. But a wimp is a person who believes in this world and
sticks up for their rights. They're always defending themselves. What kind of a being can
go through all of that. Go beyond it and see the reality. A wimp cannot do that. A wimp is
the same as a coward in this world. But a person who has developed a tremendous humility.
Has total love forgiveness and compassion for everything and everybody. Therefore
they do not have the slightest hint for retaliation or revenge or anger.
For part of the humility is realizing that there is only one self. You are the self of
all, of every person, every animal, every vegetable, every mineral. You are that self, all-
T175: Steps In Spiritual Life
1801
pervading. Therefore you become angry with yourself. You take revenge on yourself.
You've hurt yourself. Learn to leave everything alone. Especially yourself.
Understand that when one door closes another door opens. The universe is on
your side. Life is on your side. Nothing is against you. Always try to be cheerful. Do not
tell people your troubles or your problems for they have got their own. Stop feeling sorry
for yourself.
If you only became aware of the power within you. The universal essence. Then
all the gods that you've been worshipping will come to your aid and worship you. They
will all be within you. When all of these years you've been worshipping the Buddha or the
Christ or Shiva or Krishna. All of these gods are really you. You are that. When you are
happy sure of yourself then the gods become you totally and completely and you become
a powerhouse of joy and love. You are already free. You are already liberated. There is
nothing you need. There is no thing you have to become. Do not think about this. Just be
it.
You think you may be in need of something but who is in need of something? The
ego. It is the ego that has fears. That they ay lose something or something my be taken
away from them. If you can only understand the deep power you have. It will always take
care of you and watch you and look over you and protect you. You have to learn to feel
this in your heart. This is what Ramana meant when he said, "Always be aware of the Iam."
Under all conditions be aware of I-am. Not I am this or I am that, just I am. The first
name of god.
When Moses was freeing the children of Israel from bondage in Egypt and god
spoke to him and told him to go to Egypt and set his people free. Moses inquired, "Well
who shall I say sent me?" And God said, "Say I am that I am." Meaning the power of god is
Moses himself or anyone who utters this statement. This used to be a very sacred word, "I
am." But in this age people use it very loosely. And they get so used to it that it has no
meaning to them any longer. I am is almighty power. I am is god. I am is pure awareness,
absolute reality. I-am is.
If you can only remember this and feel it in your heart. That is all you have to do.
Feel the I-am in your heart and you will become totally free. Whatever you're doing during
the day whether you're working or washing dishes or driving the car always say, "I
am," to yourself. An realize what you're saying. WHen you utter those syllables I-am the
whole universe becomes you. You awaken to the reality of life. You true nature. The self.
Do not believe or think that you will lose interest in life or lose interest in your
husband or your wife or your family. Ramana was a typical example of this. He would get
up at 3 o clock in the morning and chop vegetables with the cook. Make breakfast for all
the people in the ashram. He kept himself very active when he was able to. This shows
you that you can be a Jnani and partake in the world also.
When you think of a holy person do not believe they have to live in a cave or in a
jungle retreat. It so happens that Ramana went to Arunachala and stayed there all of his
Robert Adams Satsangs: The Collected Works
1802
life. But he could have gone to the market place and worked. He could have been an engineer,
a book keeper, a scientist, a garbage man. Realization does not make you into a babbling
idiot. It makes you into a quiet idiot. It keeps you from talking too much.
Your life is your responsibility. What are you going to do with the days you've got
left on this earth. If you're interested in all of these things of the world when you realize
they're subject to change continuously you're foolish. All your so-called troubles. All of
your affairs, the affairs of the world, everything going on in this world today are all subject
to change, everything changes. Nothing is ever the same. Therefore you become disillusioned.
Totally disillusioned when you give yourself to this world.
Surrender to the self. Become totally free. Do not fear this world any longer. Do
not become bamboozled by the things you watch on TV. When you hear about the wars all
over, mans' inhumanity to man. And watch the TV you see people getting killed all over
this world. Realize what this is. Maya, a cosmic joke. Illusion, an appearance. Like the
water in the mirage. The more you dive within yourself the more you will be able to
seethe truth about this world and you will laugh.
Therefore spend your time going into the I-am. Into the self. If you want to solve
your problems do not think about your problems at all. Think of I-am. I-am is omniscience,
all-pervading, omnipotence, omnipresent. I-am is god. Absolute reality peace.
Therefore when you really put your faith in the I-am your whole world will change to
perfection.
Now let's practice the I-am meditation.
Make yourself comfortable. And really feel this. This is what you should be doing
by yourself. Close you eyes to remove obstructions. Focus your attention on your breath.
Observe your breath, your respiration. Do not emphasize your breath, breath normally.
Observe the feelings of your body. All the feelings that you have in your body. Observe
them watch them.
You are now the witness to your thoughts and your bodily feelings. Do not try to
stop your thoughts or change your thoughts. Just watch your thoughts. Remember you
are the witness. No matter what your thoughts tell you just watch them.
Now ask yourself, "What is the source of the witnessing? I am." With your respiration
dive deep within yourself as you say, "I-am," to yourself. As you inhale you say, "I," as
you exhale you say, "am." With every breath of I-am feel your self diving deeper and
deeper and deeper and deeper within the self. Within the heart.
With every breath. With every "I," with every "am." You are going deeper and
deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper. Deeper than you've ever gone before. Transcending
your thoughts and your bodily functions. Your mind. Your samskaras. Your
karma. It's all being transcended. It's all being transmuted. And it's turning into nothingness.
You are becoming absolutely free. As you go deeper and deeper within the I-am. Do
it!
(silence)
T175: Steps In Spiritual Life
1803
SK: Robert in the books that I've read about Ramana there is not that much about him
saying things about witness stuff. Did you hear him say stuff about witnessing?
R: No witness is usually from buddhism, from zen. It's a zen tradition. But it's also
a hindu tradition. In some aspects of Hinduism. He said to some people about witnessing.
He mentioned it, yes. He didn't give it too much praise but he talked about it. He used
words like to be aware rather than to witness.
SU: What's the difference between being aware and witnessing?)
R: It's the same thing. They just use that terminology. In buddhism you use witnessing
alot. It's all the same.
No questions no prashad. (students laugh)
SF: I have a question. (laughter) I remember back when I was in therapy. Sometimes we
tried to analyze dreams. The doctor would always insist that in the dream there was nothing outside
of me. Out of nothing I appeared along with everything created and transpired in the dream. So
there was a creator in the dream and a creation in the dream. And they're equal thoughts of one
whole. So the creator and the creator are one. And when the dream is over there is no more dream.
That's it, nothing. And of course apparently in the dream time it's also together also a creation or is
created in the dreamer. And it's a different type of time that we have in the individual experiences
in the waking state. It occurred to me that the waking state is really no different than in the dream
state. You want to comment on that?
Steps In Spiritual Life
2nd August, 1992
Robert: Good evening. It is a pleasure to be with you again. I welcome you with
all my heart. I love you. All is well. Everything is unfolding as it should.
While I was sitting in the silence. I sort of reverted to the days when I was in
Arunachala. I usually do not discuss this too much with other people but since it just came
to me I will sort of briefly touch the subject.
I had been living in Ramana ashram for about a year and a half. This was the end
of 1948. I stayed with Arthur Osborne, in his house. In those days when foreigners came
they were put up with Arthur Osborne most of the time without him knowing.
And on one particular evening about 4 o clock Sri Ramana walked into the cottage
and he brought me a mango. And he sat down on a stool in the corner of the room. I sat on
the bed. We looked at each other and we smiled. He gave me one of his beautiful grins of
his. And I knew that we should keep silent we should say anything because there is nothing
to say. But all of a sudden he asked me a question. I asked him, "Ramana what is more
important to be in the presence of a Sage or to practice atma-vichara by yourself, selfinquiry?"
I had already known the answer but it seemed the right thing to do was to ask
him the question.
And he knew that I knew the answer. He waited a few seconds ??? and then he
said, "The Sage is atma-vichara. The Sage is the Self, your Self." Therefore when one is in
the presence of the Sage all of the sadhana is being done at an accelerating rate. Everything
that has to be done is being done. When one is in the presence of a true Sage.
So again I asked him, "How come so many people have come to you and only
certain people feel it. Some people feel nothing. Some people go away disappointed. And
some people get all of their dreams fulfilled?" Again I knew the answer.
So he waited a minute or so and he said, "This depends on the maturity of the
seeker. It depends on the sincerity of the seeker. As you can see many people come here to
visit me. To make a judgement and then they go look for another teacher. They go somewhere
else. They travel all through India. And then they go back to England or to Holland
or to the United States and they tell their friends that they have seen 10 Sages. Yet nothing
has happened to them. But if one is sincere and surrenders totally to the Sage then the
Sage, the grace of the Sage will automatically is felt by this individual and this individual
makes tremendous progress. But the person really has to be sincere." By sincere he said, "I
mean he has to be a devotee. To forget about him or herself totally, completely and merge
in the Sage."
I then asked him another question, "What is the easiest way and most effective
way to do atma-vichara, self-inquiry?" Again he smiled and waited a few seconds and
then he said, "To always be aware consciously in all situations of the I-am. No matter what
you're doing where you are be aware of the I-am in your heart. This is the most effective
practice."
His head started shaking and I also asked about this. "Why do you have this
weakness?" I found out later his head was shaking for the last forty years. He again explained
to me that when he had his experience when he was sixteen years old it was like
putting an elephant in a hut. What happens when you put an elephant in a hut? The hut
shakes all over. It breaks to pieces. When he had his near death experience he told me his
body shook to pieces as-it-were and left him weak. This is interesting to remember.
I asked him, "Why didn't this happen to me at the time?" And he explained to me
that I had an experience not of death but of life. Which is a little different. I asked him,
"What determines these experiences?" He said, "Karma." I then left it alone. He walked
with a cane , with a stick. This was 1949 he was very sick. That is how his body appeared.
And his attendant came in took him to his toilet where he was supposed to go about 4 o
clock and he left.
Now these things are very interesting so we'll discuss them. When I say you haveIt doesn't matter what situations you are going through in this life. Whether you're
to be sincere to make spiritual progress I'm not speaking of sincerity as a longing or a
wanting or a needing to become self-realized. In this case sincerity means total honesty,
total humility, total love. This is what sincerity means in this case. When you have total
honesty, total love you do not think of yourself any longer. You do not think about your
problems or your humanhood or your self in anyway whatsoever. This doesn't matter try
to understand this.
experiencing good or bad, riches or poverty, sickness or health these things are totally
irrelevant. The idea is to take your mind off yourself, your little self, off the I-thought and
merge you mind with the I-am consciousness. Forget about your pettiness. Forget about
your personal life. In truth you have no personal life. You must always remember this.
There is nothing personal about you.
You're always so worried about your affairs as if something can hurt you in this
world. This world is a world of god. It is a spiritual world. Everything in this world is
Brahman. How can Brahman hurt you. How can god cause you misery or pain. These
things are the false I. You have for some reason or another become hypnotized into believing
you have pain, you have lack, you have imitation, there is something wrong with you.
This is an optical illusion.
You do not really exist as a body at all. There is no body that you have to get rid
of. Some of you are still meditating on the fact that yo have to get rid of your body somehow.
Some of you even believe and think that you would like to so-called die to the body.
So you can be free of it. This is a false premise. How can you be free of something that you
Robert Adams Satsangs: The Collected Works
1800
never had? The body is an appearance like the world. Who's appearance? Nobody's appearance.
But for some reason you have become attached to the thing called the body and
to this manifest world. This is the only reason you suffer. Because of your attachment to
the body and to the world. If you were not attached to your body or to the world who
would be left to suffer? It is the body that suffers. It is the body that goes through experiences.
Not you.
If only you could understand what I'm saying. And go deep within yourself. Beyond
the body. Beyond the experiencer. Beyond the witness. Beyond everything. If you
can only feel this you would always be in bliss, always. You would always be totally, completely,
absolutely happy. For no reason whatsoever.
Do not look to the world to solve your problems. Do not believe and think that if
you change conditions that you would be better off. Some people believe that if they didn't
work they would be better off. They would be happy and peaceful, blissful. Some people
believe that if they had a job that they liked they would be blissful and happy. Everybody
believes something else. All of these beliefs are wrong. They're wrong because you are
looking to a condition to make you happy. You're looking for an experience to give you
peace. You're doing this again because you believe you are a body.
There is no condition, there is no experience in this world that can bring you peace
and happiness. For peace and happiness are your rightful nature. This is your natural
state. It is only when you allow the mind to think that trouble begins.
So the first step in spiritual life is learning to control your mind.
You learn to control your mind by inquiring, "To whom does the mind come?"
This makes you realize that the mind comes to your body. It's part of your body process.
But in truth you have no mind. You are mindless. When you are mindless you are Brahman.
You are god. Where the mind is limited. You have to always go beyond the mind.
You stop paying attention to the thoughts. Let the thoughts do what they will. Allow the
thoughts to frighten you if they will. To tell you all kinds of stories. To tell you all kinds of
things. Do not pay any attention. When you ignore your mind it will go away.
The second step in spiritual progress is to develop humility. And humility means
you do not judge people. You do not feel slighted when someone talks about you or tells
you something rude. You do not get angry or upset. You just remain yourself.
This sounds like a wimp. But a wimp is a person who believes in this world and
sticks up for their rights. They're always defending themselves. What kind of a being can
go through all of that. Go beyond it and see the reality. A wimp cannot do that. A wimp is
the same as a coward in this world. But a person who has developed a tremendous humility.
Has total love forgiveness and compassion for everything and everybody. Therefore
they do not have the slightest hint for retaliation or revenge or anger.
For part of the humility is realizing that there is only one self. You are the self of
all, of every person, every animal, every vegetable, every mineral. You are that self, all-
T175: Steps In Spiritual Life
1801
pervading. Therefore you become angry with yourself. You take revenge on yourself.
You've hurt yourself. Learn to leave everything alone. Especially yourself.
Understand that when one door closes another door opens. The universe is on
your side. Life is on your side. Nothing is against you. Always try to be cheerful. Do not
tell people your troubles or your problems for they have got their own. Stop feeling sorry
for yourself.
If you only became aware of the power within you. The universal essence. Then
all the gods that you've been worshipping will come to your aid and worship you. They
will all be within you. When all of these years you've been worshipping the Buddha or the
Christ or Shiva or Krishna. All of these gods are really you. You are that. When you are
happy sure of yourself then the gods become you totally and completely and you become
a powerhouse of joy and love. You are already free. You are already liberated. There is
nothing you need. There is no thing you have to become. Do not think about this. Just be
it.
You think you may be in need of something but who is in need of something? The
ego. It is the ego that has fears. That they ay lose something or something my be taken
away from them. If you can only understand the deep power you have. It will always take
care of you and watch you and look over you and protect you. You have to learn to feel
this in your heart. This is what Ramana meant when he said, "Always be aware of the Iam."
Under all conditions be aware of I-am. Not I am this or I am that, just I am. The first
name of god.
When Moses was freeing the children of Israel from bondage in Egypt and god
spoke to him and told him to go to Egypt and set his people free. Moses inquired, "Well
who shall I say sent me?" And God said, "Say I am that I am." Meaning the power of god is
Moses himself or anyone who utters this statement. This used to be a very sacred word, "I
am." But in this age people use it very loosely. And they get so used to it that it has no
meaning to them any longer. I am is almighty power. I am is god. I am is pure awareness,
absolute reality. I-am is.
If you can only remember this and feel it in your heart. That is all you have to do.
Feel the I-am in your heart and you will become totally free. Whatever you're doing during
the day whether you're working or washing dishes or driving the car always say, "I
am," to yourself. An realize what you're saying. WHen you utter those syllables I-am the
whole universe becomes you. You awaken to the reality of life. You true nature. The self.
Do not believe or think that you will lose interest in life or lose interest in your
husband or your wife or your family. Ramana was a typical example of this. He would get
up at 3 o clock in the morning and chop vegetables with the cook. Make breakfast for all
the people in the ashram. He kept himself very active when he was able to. This shows
you that you can be a Jnani and partake in the world also.
When you think of a holy person do not believe they have to live in a cave or in a
jungle retreat. It so happens that Ramana went to Arunachala and stayed there all of his
Robert Adams Satsangs: The Collected Works
1802
life. But he could have gone to the market place and worked. He could have been an engineer,
a book keeper, a scientist, a garbage man. Realization does not make you into a babbling
idiot. It makes you into a quiet idiot. It keeps you from talking too much.
Your life is your responsibility. What are you going to do with the days you've got
left on this earth. If you're interested in all of these things of the world when you realize
they're subject to change continuously you're foolish. All your so-called troubles. All of
your affairs, the affairs of the world, everything going on in this world today are all subject
to change, everything changes. Nothing is ever the same. Therefore you become disillusioned.
Totally disillusioned when you give yourself to this world.
Surrender to the self. Become totally free. Do not fear this world any longer. Do
not become bamboozled by the things you watch on TV. When you hear about the wars all
over, mans' inhumanity to man. And watch the TV you see people getting killed all over
this world. Realize what this is. Maya, a cosmic joke. Illusion, an appearance. Like the
water in the mirage. The more you dive within yourself the more you will be able to
seethe truth about this world and you will laugh.
Therefore spend your time going into the I-am. Into the self. If you want to solve
your problems do not think about your problems at all. Think of I-am. I-am is omniscience,
all-pervading, omnipotence, omnipresent. I-am is god. Absolute reality peace.
Therefore when you really put your faith in the I-am your whole world will change to
perfection.
Now let's practice the I-am meditation.
Make yourself comfortable. And really feel this. This is what you should be doing
by yourself. Close you eyes to remove obstructions. Focus your attention on your breath.
Observe your breath, your respiration. Do not emphasize your breath, breath normally.
Observe the feelings of your body. All the feelings that you have in your body. Observe
them watch them.
You are now the witness to your thoughts and your bodily feelings. Do not try to
stop your thoughts or change your thoughts. Just watch your thoughts. Remember you
are the witness. No matter what your thoughts tell you just watch them.
Now ask yourself, "What is the source of the witnessing? I am." With your respiration
dive deep within yourself as you say, "I-am," to yourself. As you inhale you say, "I," as
you exhale you say, "am." With every breath of I-am feel your self diving deeper and
deeper and deeper and deeper within the self. Within the heart.
With every breath. With every "I," with every "am." You are going deeper and
deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper. Deeper than you've ever gone before. Transcending
your thoughts and your bodily functions. Your mind. Your samskaras. Your
karma. It's all being transcended. It's all being transmuted. And it's turning into nothingness.
You are becoming absolutely free. As you go deeper and deeper within the I-am. Do
it!
(silence)
T175: Steps In Spiritual Life
1803
SK: Robert in the books that I've read about Ramana there is not that much about him
saying things about witness stuff. Did you hear him say stuff about witnessing?
R: No witness is usually from buddhism, from zen. It's a zen tradition. But it's also
a hindu tradition. In some aspects of Hinduism. He said to some people about witnessing.
He mentioned it, yes. He didn't give it too much praise but he talked about it. He used
words like to be aware rather than to witness.
SU: What's the difference between being aware and witnessing?)
R: It's the same thing. They just use that terminology. In buddhism you use witnessing
alot. It's all the same.
No questions no prashad. (students laugh)
SF: I have a question. (laughter) I remember back when I was in therapy. Sometimes we
tried to analyze dreams. The doctor would always insist that in the dream there was nothing outside
of me. Out of nothing I appeared along with everything created and transpired in the dream. So
there was a creator in the dream and a creation in the dream. And they're equal thoughts of one
whole. So the creator and the creator are one. And when the dream is over there is no more dream.
That's it, nothing. And of course apparently in the dream time it's also together also a creation or is
created in the dreamer. And it's a different type of time that we have in the individual experiences
in the waking state. It occurred to me that the waking state is really no different than in the dream
state. You want to comment on that?
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